Where's the OP? Ha-ha...we've been stung. I imagine he'll drop by and leave another post...then he'll vanish.
Back in the 70s, JWs were known for fighting back. Now they hit and run.
Cold Steel
JoinedPosts by Cold Steel
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78
HOW TO IDENTIFY THE TRUE RELIGION
by Fifth Column injesus said that the true religion would be evident in the lives of the people who practice it.
by their fruits you will recognize them, he said.
every good tree produces fine fruit.
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GB requirements
by Scarlouie inhas the requirements to be a gb member changed over the last 20 years.
i was last a jw in the 80's and at that time i thought you had to be able to remember 1914?
is my memory bad or was this a doctrine change?.
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Cold Steel
My mother remembers seeing and talking to her grandfather, who used to walk down the streets wearing his Confederate uniform and limping from a battle wound. He was in his 90s when he was working in his garden and was stung by a bee. He didn't feel very well, so he went to bed early and died in bed. So my mother knew a man who was alive in the War of 1860. Man, do I feel old!
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Warnings for TRUE Christians!!
by The Searcher injesus repeatedly warned his followers that they would not know when he would return.
he was not warning unbelievers, he was warning them!!.
why was he warning them?
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Cold Steel
First, I find it despicable that the JWs translate the word “servant” as “slave.” There’s a huge difference between the two. As many theologians and scholars have said—I would never be God’s slave. Servant, yes. Friend, yes. But slave, never!
Second, I don’t believe Jesus is speaking about a group or body of men. He is speaking of individuals. The scripture states: “Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his lord hath made ruler over his household, to give them meat in due season?” Meat is sustenance, and the servants of the Lord are expected to be ready to sustain their families and the church. “Blessed is that servant, whom his lord, when he cometh, shall find so doing. Verily I say unto you, That he shall make him ruler over all his goods.” In other words, those servants who prepare for the Lord’s coming will be rewarded with a crown. The next verses speak of an “evil servant” who is not ready for His coming. That, too, is not a body of people, but are individuals.
The JWs put their faith in a body of men who have been neither called nor ordained, and if so, who ordained them? And whence did they receive their calling? The General Body is a manmade group who has taken “this honor” unto themselves. The apostle Paul warned that those who serve God cannot take the honor unto themselves, but must be called “as was Aaron.” (See Hebrews 5:4) How was Aaron called? Through direct revelation from God, to Moses. How was the General Body chosen? It was chosen by men and not God.
The servants of God are not slaves. A servant is “One who is privately employed to perform domestic services.” A slave is “One bound in servitude.” What’s the difference? A servant is a free agent, whilst a slave is not. And God is not about taking free agency from man. He will not do it nor can He do it. Those who serve God do it voluntarily, and the translators of the JW Bible have made a grave error in not realizing it.
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78
HOW TO IDENTIFY THE TRUE RELIGION
by Fifth Column injesus said that the true religion would be evident in the lives of the people who practice it.
by their fruits you will recognize them, he said.
every good tree produces fine fruit.
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Cold Steel
He's gone. You done run him off!
Since he's forbidden to read critical material, he can leave messages but he can't read the responses.
Either that or he's shunning us.
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78
HOW TO IDENTIFY THE TRUE RELIGION
by Fifth Column injesus said that the true religion would be evident in the lives of the people who practice it.
by their fruits you will recognize them, he said.
every good tree produces fine fruit.
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Cold Steel
How does one recognize the true religion? Fifth Column has listed some interesting claims, but I suspect he cut and pasted them. He’s also entitled to his opinions, but what are they based on?
- base their teachings on the Bible
Most Christian sects would likely agree with this point, but the fact is, the First Century church did not have an established canon of scripture. Some books that weren’t included in the 66 books of the Bible were held to be scriptural by the early Christians and others that were included were held to be unscriptural, such as the Song of Solomon, Ecclesiastes and the book of Revelation. It’s also evident that many of the early apostles read and were influenced by books such as the Testament of the Twelve Patriarchs and Apocalypse of Enoch. The notion of a “canon” wasn’t really accepted until much later.
- worship only Jehovah and make his name known
I don’t know where this point came from, but the early church did not go around using the Hebrew vocalization of God’s holy name in a society where it was taboo. There is absolutely no evidence that the early church used any form of the holy name in casual references. And though the Jews used the tetragrammaton in their writings, they had no formal name for God. In fact, it wasn’t until the 13th Century A.D. that any vocalization was agreed upon. To advocate the position that the First Century Christians were walking around using any formal name of God is fiction. Conversely, many sects today worship only God and make His name known. The early Christians, as their name implies, were very Christ-centric. It also was fairly well known that Jesus was Jehovah, not the Father. When Adam partook of the forbidden fruit, a mediator was needed to be an Advocate between man and the Father. That mediator was known as Jehovah in the Old Testament and Jesus in the New. When He redeems and glorifies the Earth at the end of the Millennium, He will present it back to the Father.
- show genuine love for one another
This is a legitimate part of Christ’s church. Many Jehovah’s Witnesses have told me that love in that sect is strictly conditional. One faction of my family became JWs, and they cut off all communication with the rest of the family and refused to return our calls and e-mails. In the “true” faith, love for one’s family is not restricted as it is in some religions.
- accept Jesus as God’s means of salvation
Yep.
- are no part of the world
Nope. The Lord said we should be in the world, but not of the world. The FLDS cult in southern Utah lives in an enclosed community and e-mails, newspapers, magazines and other venues are strictly forbidden. They cannot read any opposition opinions and they take their instructions from only one person…their “prophet.”
- preach God’s Kingdom as man’s only hope
Agreed. But God’s Kingdom cannot be manmade. Daniel said that the Kingdom would be as a stone made without hands. This means it will not be a manmade Kingdom, but one made without human hands. The Jehovah’s Witnesses do not meet that criterion.
There are other points that Fifth Column misses. The only true faith will be one that is authorized by God. Its ministers will have divine authority and will be duly called and ordained by those in authority. Jesus told his apostles: “Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.” (John 15:16)
Some sects say they glean their authority from the scriptures, but where do the JWs gain their authority? Jehovah, we are told, will come to judge the nations and mankind. But John tells us, “For the Father judges no man, but has committed all judgment to the Son.” (John 5:22) Thus, since Jehovah is the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End; He is the Judge of mankind, we know that He and Jesus are the same. Jehovah is the great Mediator between the Father and mankind, our great Advocate and Judge.
As subjective beings, we tend to have expectations based on our own views. If you ask a Baptist or a Seventh Day Adventist or a Mormon what they believe the true church should be like, they can each give you a subjective view. A Seventh Day Adventist will say that one point is that the true church will worship on the Seventh Day of the week. A Catholic will say that the church will have an uninterrupted line of authority that goes back to the First Century and a Mormon will say that a belief in the Book of Mormon is a key to the true church.
So throwing up a list of JW talking points isn’t going to mean much.
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Cognitive Dissonance related thought, your input please.
by notjustyet ini was going over the term cognitive dissonance at wikipedia and came across this sub topic.. before i "taint" the jury, let me know how, if any, the wtbts use this "the effort-justification paradigm".
especially regarding the "sever initiation portion.. njy .
the effort-justification paradigmfurther information: effort justificationdissonance is aroused whenever individuals voluntarily engage in an unpleasant activity to achieve some desired goal.
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Cold Steel
That's hilarious!
Post-decisional dissonance is often suffered by rape victims who [mistakenly] blame themselves for the attack. It is not experienced by many JWs unless those witnesses have a feeling that they've lied or misrepresented the truth to someone. They may know, for example, that the New Testament scriptures liken our bodies to tabernacles. They may then read Phillipians 1, where Paul writes: " For to me to live is Christ, and to die is gain. But if I live in the flesh, this is the fruit of my labour: yet what I shall choose I wot not. For I am in a strait betwixt two, having a desire to depart, and to be with Christ; which is far better: nevertheless to abide in the flesh is more needful for you." Then you stumble on 1 Peter 3, where Peter states: " For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit." You ask how preaching to the dead can enable them to be judged " according to men in the flesh" but live "according to God in the spirit."
Now, knowing all this, they go out to visit some investigators that don't know much about the scriptures. You have them open their little booklet and read from it, assuring them there is no such thing as a human spirit -- that it's all Greek fantasy that was adopted by later [apostate] Christians. So even as they're nodding in consent, you're suddenly hit with guilt. You knew what the booklet said, but now you know that may not be true. After all, you wonder, is there a reason most Christians believe humans have spirits within them? And did you just mislead those two people -- people who may invest the rest of their lives in a religion you now know may not be true? And any children they may have? You worry about this for the next several days but ultimately do nothing. This is cognitive dissonance, which is anxiety resulting from inconsistency between one's beliefs and one's actions.
Most JWs don't spend enough time reading other Bibles enough to know when they're teaching such conflicts. Their Bibles are carefully "translated" so as to remove such conflicts entirely. At the same time, all doubts should not be expected to be resolved. There are still leaps of faith Christians have to make; however, when inconsistencies are as conspicuous as whether man has a spirit presents itself, more investigation is called for and should not be ignored. That's where prayer and intelligence comes into play.
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What's the point?
by LKM inhi, i'm not a jw, but am recently married to an disfellowshipped jw who does not believe in jw beliefs.
my stepson is being raised by his mother to be a jw.
ack!
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Cold Steel
As Michael Corleone told Senator Geary, "We're all part of the same hypocrisy...." Only they've made it a profession.
They get a comfortable and steady living salary and have also most likely have found no reason not to continue the path they're on. They weild a great deal of power, are treated very deferentially on their travels and most likely view themselves the counterparts of the ancient apostles in that they do all that the ancient apostles did except receive actual revelation. Or perhaps they think they're receiving it when random thoughts come to them -- as they come to everyone.
The FLDS group in Utah is run by Warren Jeffs, a slimy worm of a man who now is in prison for arranging and taking part in polygamous marriages with underage females. Jeffs thinks of himself as a prophet and those who follow him would die in an instant for him. After stints of sitting on a toilet all day in solitary confinement, he one day told a minion who had come to see him that he was receiving a revelation: "You can tell anybody who wants to read this message...that they can see it, even apostates and gentiles, that they may know that I have been a liar and the truth is not in me. I am not the prophet. I never was the prophet.”
Now for him this was a major admission. The visitor interrupts him to say that he is the prophet, but Warren holds his hand up.
“Just a minute–the Lord is still dictating. This is not a test. This is a revelation from the Lord God of Heaven to his former servant who was never his servant who is dictating these words at this time that you may know this is not a test. I say farewell again, to all who qualify for Zion. Farewell.”
Visitor: “We love you! We love you! We love you!”
True prophets don't doubt their callings...they know. And no one can say how the GB members feel when they turn off the lights at night. Have any of them claimed to see angels? What confirmations do they have of their divine callings? I suspect they have none. BTW, Jeffs subsequently reneged and excommunicated those directly below him. So his self doubts were like those of Joan of Arc. After telling her she's going to burn, she reneged and then changed her mind -- and they burned her.
The JWs are a manmade religion like the ones they denounce. Everything they have is "invisible" and can't be verified by scripture or anything else. But they have bouts of feeling "new light" replacing older light. This would be great if they believed that God could reveal new revelation to His church, but they, like many Christians, believe that the Lord can no longer speak...can no longer reveal new doctrines. But they do believe that the Lord can clarify points that may not have been perfectly understood in the past.
So they have a social system of power. They have economic security, good pension plans and they're treated as apostles by the modern membership.
One more thing. Seeing that Jehovah is coming in power and glory any blinking minute, why do they need pension plans? Hmmmm.
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Who Really is The Faithful and Discreet Slave?
by Recovery inlet's assume, as most of you probably believe, that the anointed christians are not the fds.
if the anointed are not the fds, who are?.
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Cold Steel
The 144,000 are twelve thousand judges from each of the tribes of Israel. The number need not be taken literally, but these men will be "saviors" on Mount Zion who will have a high and holy calling to judge Israel and to share a heavenly meal with the Son of God.
They will not be spirits, but will be resurrected beings.
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false prophets
by fakesmile inim just thinking out loud here, which isnt exactly my strong suit.
but how can an organisation send half cocked "ministers" who are uneducated/ ill prepared and often have the most atrocious family arrangements, to tell complete strangers how they should live their lives?
is it an inside joke?
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Cold Steel
I'm sure they would point out that the apostles were all uneducated, but were called to lead others -- even those who were better educated.
The trouble is, the apostles were "called" and "ordained," while the General Body are neither.
"Surely the Lord will do nothing, save he reveal it unto his servants the prophets." Where is the GB mentioned by any of the prophets? Also, "In the mouth of two or three witnesses shall every word be established." Where are the witnesses to verify the GB?
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You Can't Live Forever in Paradise on Earth
by smmcroberts inthis will come as no shock to most of us.
but i wanted to detail the reasons in simple language for our witness friends in my latest blog: you can't live forever in paradise on earth.
sorry if it bursts anyone's bubble, but those who are loyal to the truth surely won't mind following where it leads.
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Cold Steel
Not only does human life depend on the Sun, it also depends on the Moon. It's the Moon that holds the Earth in a stable orbit. That said, the law of entropy is a tough hurdle for JWs. I'm not a JW myself, but Jesus declared that the Earth would be the home of the righteous for eternity; however, He did not promise that the Earth would be restored to its paradisaical state. Who, for example, would want to live on a world full of plants and trees for eternity? Not moi? What does "Jehovah" want us to do during that time? After all, after the fourth family reunion, and after we've mastered every musical instrument and learned to paint, what purpose will there be to life?
God does live by eternal laws, but some are temporal and others eternal. Jesus hoped the Father would remove the "bitter cup," but He submitted to the will of the Father, who lives by certain immutable eternal laws that even He cannot violate. The Atonement depended on the Father's abandonment and the death of His Son. Why? Because our sins would have placed us beyond salvation and would have resulted in the Father's abandonment of us. Thus, Jesus knew the price of our salvation and was willing to pay for it.
In an early non-canonical writing, we see it in context: “And He (the Father) heaved sighs over him, saying, ‘If I put breath into this [man], he must suffer many pains.’ And I said unto My Father, ‘Put breath into him; I will be an advocate for him.’ And My Father said unto Me, ‘If I put breath into him, My beloved Son, Thou wilt be obliged to go down into the world, and to suffer many pains for him before Thou shalt have redeemed him, and made him to come back to his primal state.’ And I said unto My Father, ‘Put breath into him; I will be his advocate, and I will go down into the world, and will fulfill Thy command.’” (Discourse on Abbaton, folios 11b-12a)
In this remarkable document, the price would be high: “…their sins which will bend thee down under a yoke of iron and make thee like a calf whose eyes grow dim with suffering, and will choke thy spirit as with a yoke; because of the sins of these souls thy tongue will cleave to the roof of my mouth.”
Nevertheless, the preexistant Lord agreed.
The Redemption also shall cover the Earth and make it Eternal. It most likely will not remain in its present orbit in this part of the galaxy. We don't yet know where this Earth will reside, but it undoubtedly will not be in the temporal universe. And it also undoubtedly will not exist as a paradise of dirt and rocks, but will be glorified, even as its inhabitants will be glorified -- and it will not be governed by a temporal sun that will one day burn out, but will be transported to an Eternal abode where it will be joined to other Eternal worlds.
Some Christians believe the rest of the Universe was created only to light up the Earth's nighttime sky, but this makes no sense. And many non-Christians believe the Earth will one day be destroyed as the solar system begins to wind down. But I believe God made provisions to save the Earth and Redeem it. I also believe we're destined for a greater future than existing eternally in some Garden of Eden as depicted by the JWs in their publications. If they're right, then I don't want to be resurrected. Count me out!